The 14th Floor is Actually the 13th Floor
At the risk of ruffling feathers, today I want to write at least in part about religion. Allow me to begin with a caveat: I am in no way advocating that anyone tergiversate from any religious beliefs, nor am I ridiculing anyone’s faith; I’m simply going to put my own beliefs out there for discussion.
I don’t believe in a god, in the same way that I don’t believe in the Loch Ness Monster, the Tooth Fairy, or an invisible friend named Grover. Which is not to say I insist no such things exist; rather, I lump Jesus, Allah, and Santa Claus into the same general category of stuff that is arbitrary and unprovable, and therefore of no consequence to my life.
The fact that so many people are willing to believe in gods, without any evidence, interests me greatly, so I am keen to write about it. I don’t judge anyone on their beliefs, nor do I think any individual is immature or primitive because they believe in a god. I do think that the widespread belief in gods is evidence of the immaturity of the human race as a whole, but individuals are another matter. An individual (usually) believes because the group does, so any one person who believes in something, even something fantastic, is in no way flawed or primitive. That person is a product of his environment. To take a random example, a citizen of ancient Greece who believed in Zeus was not foolish for believing the prevailing myth.
As a race, humans have taken amazing strides in terms of science and medicine. We’ve put men on the moon, cured scores of diseases, and have a firm understanding of the universe at its most basic, sub-atomic level. We have computers and airplanes, the internet and mobile phones, to name but a few seemingly miraculous inventions. However, in terms of mental enlightenment, although we may like to think otherwise, we’re only a few steps beyond the level of the primitive.
I’m not referring exclusively to religion here, but to all forms of superstition. It’s preposterous to even consider that the number 13 is unlucky, yet nearly all buildings skip the 13th floor, instead jumping from 12 to 14. Countless people actually believe in good luck charms, lucky traditions, curses, or that you can jinx something by talking about it. It’s all complete nonsense, but the belief in the existence of luck or the truth of superstitions is deep-rooted in many people. And really, how can we believe we’re an enlightened populace when a significant percentage of the population believes in astrology?
Today’s Question: If the Red Sox meet the Cubs in the World Series, will the world end?
Intriguing post.
You know, there are some people who are just as convinced there is a god as you are convinced that there isn’t one. I’ll reverse the challenge I usually give to them, and you can take me up on it if you choose. Prove to me that there is/are no god/gods, puppeteers, masters of the universe, whatever.
Personally, I don’t think it matters one way or the other, although the term “true believer” comes to mind whenever I encounter anyone who doesn’t claim agnoticism. I’m perfectly content to let people go on believing whichever way they want, though. If scientific development is the idol you wish to worship, go right ahead. No skin off my nose. :)
Have a great day and go Cubs!
Oh no, not the ‘intellectual” peasprout! Haha…j/k
Great insights you have there…
For your question, if they do go to the series, The Cubs would win and the world would end because we would all go to heaven. hehe….
I’ll adjust one line that Hybrid_girl wrote according to my beliefs.
SAD insights you have there…
I pretty much completely agree. I am a double major in philosophy and physics (for now), it is to be expected. I have dedicated a pretty good deal of time to learning about the aforementioned notions. Have you ever read Bertrand Russell’s “Why I am not a Christian” or Dan Brown’s “The Da Vinci Code?” They are both really good and relate to what you have said. The second book is fictional but the facts given are true, or at least researched.
On the topic of superstition, I just had a long interesting argument with a guy I know about why I don’t believe in luck. He just spit out things that made absolutely no sense in a desperate attempt to avoid the truth.
You’re aim is dead on with the concept of God. People are still confused though. They turn their confusion to hatred, which is actually kind of ironic. Instead of listening to another person’s views they prefer to stereotype the person and ignore them. They don’t want to lose that safety net that they spend their lives hiding in. The person who posted right before me is a great example of this.
I think this comment is quite long enough without going into detail about anything else. By the way, this post deserves about 1000 eprops. Very very good. Have a day.
nope, coz cubs are gonna win! :D
hehe, whether I agree with your points isnt important, but id have to say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
And also im not sure if youre trying to say we should banish thoughts on what is moral and what is not, but morality helps to keep things in order, and its arguable that without morality, we may not develop to our full potential.
Ah, theres just not enough room in a comment box for a full discussion is there! =$
You make some good points Pea. I agree with most all of them. However, I think GOD exists, even if only as a symbol to guide me to be a good person. That could just be my good Christian upbringing speaking though. Thanks for the insight! 8-)
@MandyMae, I am not confused about anything MandyMae. I know exactly what I believe and why! You can stand on your little soap box and scream to the top of your lungs and turn blue in the face…..and it won’t matter one little bit to me!
I want to add a little bit more. You make some good points, but even if you dont think the easter bunny is real, unless you can prove for certain that the bunny doesnt exist, some people will believe that it does. It’s all very well being certain something is real or not, but its like reality, one persons reality is different from anothers. thats why in a court you need evidence to be found guilty, if you cannot prove something, you cannot make it fact. thats why the question of god is a philosophical discussion rather than a scientific one. people didnt think space travel was possible long ago, but we can. there are various cases of science mocking people for their beliefs and study only later to find out that they are right. isnt science all about fact anyway?
*i use the word science merely as a way to distinguish between those who believe in faith and those who prefer logic.
‘are the insane so classed because there is something wrong with them, or are they insane simply because the majority do not share their reality?’
PS wrote: “Rather, [the point of the entry] is to comment that alghough [sic] people often point to scientific achievement as evidence that humans are highly advanced and enlightened, on other levels we’re still quite primitive as a race.”
Are we? Are you sure? Can you prove it? How do you quantify such things? I’ve never been able to. I have no idea how advanced we are in anything, because I have no idea of the ultimate scope of anything–science, mental evolution, what have you.
Actually, I don’t mind being a mud person, come to think of it. It’s good for your skin. :)
Insightful entry- very well put. Oh yeah…CUBS BABY!!!
Well, yes I do disagree with you, but you do have your right to your opinion. I love to get into philisophical debates. My philosophy and ethics teacher was an aethist and loved me for debating him. The only problem I have is when people get all huffy and feel they have to pound someone to make them believe what they believe. I say explain what you believe and do a good job of it and maybe that person will take in your words and begin to agree. But please don’t hurt someone emotionally or physically just to try and make them change their mind about something. And I mean don’t make fun either!!!!!!!!!!
@Hybrid_girl, Thanks for the approval, but gosh– I didn’t expect so heated a debate.
@mortsci3, I truly did not mean to offend anyone or make fun of anyone’s beliefs with this post. I’m already a little bit surprised and saddened at the way some commenters are getting upset. My apologies one and all!
pea, do you believe in destiny?
@Peasprout, NO NO NO You didn’ upset me or seem like you were making fun. I just was pointing it out for another person who made a comment. Oh and by the way, RED SOCKS ALL THE WAY!!!!!! Sorry my family is from Massachussets
god and religion are very touchy subjects. i dont understand why we continue to argue about something thats solely dependant on an individual. if faith gives them contentment, why must others interfere and make them feel otherwise?
its crazy how much everyone wants to be “right” when it comes to this. whether it be in convincing others of god’s limitations, of his existance or lack of, of which god is the true almighty, and so on. why is it so necessary to point out to others that they are “wrong?”
What a deep post Peasprout!! I agree with your comments on superstition, but I’ll have to side with the “believers” on God. Of course there is no logical proof of God’s existence–that’s what faith is all about. Also if all acts are simply that – acts, then I for one am glad that morality is held over people’s heads. I wouldn’t want to live in a world where murder, rape, incest, pedophilia, etc. went unchecked and were considered okay and normal.
If the Red Sox and the Cubs meet in the world series, then you will be able to syndicate your post, because that will be monumental evidence that superstition and luck are false beliefs.
The Curse of the Bambino will be spat upon if the Sox win it. Further evidence against luck and superstition.
But if the frickin Yankees win it again, THAT will be something I call immoral. It’s just wrong.
What’s wrong with astrology? :P
I got your first e-mail with your address awhile ago, but I haven’t received any other e-mails from ya. Send it again!!
@Peasprout, Yeah, religion is always a tough thing to just “talk” about calmly. I go to a Christian school (Seventh-Day Adventist) and I’m a buddhist. It’s really interesting to hear different insights on religion and to learn about Christianity, and most of my classmates embrace other religions as well. It’s really unfortunate when people start tearing down other people or shunning those who disagree with their beliefs.
I think that people should be embracing one another’s religion and learning from each other, not putting each other down. We all have so much to learn from one another if people took the time to listen and to try to come to an understanding and tried to practice tolerance of one another, there wouldn’t be so much bloodshed in the name of religion.
@ThursdayNext, One can still live a good life without believing in a god or an afterlife. I do it. I am kind and helpful and loving to all those around me, and I firmly believe there are no gods or afterlives. I again apologize if my post was insensitive or offensive.
i hope i didnt give you the impression of my being angry at your views of religion and gods. im not. i just think that we should respect that everyone is different, and we shouldnt insist that our own personal beliefs be theirs. nor should we make others feel attacked for believing what they believe.
there are many things that exist, but we cannot see..and yet we believe that those. love isnt something thats to be seen. it comes in all shape and form, depending on the person. why cant religion and god be accepted as such?
@Peasprout, So serious Peasprout!! No ruffled feathers here. Just wanted to chime in with everyone else, or I would have felt left out!! : ) : )
And more often than not it is the Christians who shun others instead of loving them as we are taught to do and that makes me sad because it causes people to categorize those of us who are not like that. Good point there.
It also makes me sad that I can’t always here your music. I know you’re not playing anything right now, but I just wanted to whine a little and change the subject.
P.S. I sent you an e-mail.
1. Superstition- primal, I think so, because even though I tell myself it’s stupid I still step AROUND the latter. . .but then, I also fear a falling painter.
2. God- personal thing, differs from individual to individual, believing not believing or the who. .implying one god is better then another is irritating, but then implying that anyone who does believe is a programmed robot too idiotic to think for themselves is as well. . .not that there aren’t those out there that are programmed robots too idiotic to think for themselves, just not everyone who believes in whatever energy/power/god/source beyond themselves is one. *grin*
3. Life happens. Want proof of evolution come to north Americas own Galapigos. . *grin*
as for those hot under the collar type. . life to freakin’ short, get over it!
Posted here just because it’s a through thought.
plus it gives you more propz and
plus. . .well. . .i felt like it *grin*
you are invited to my site for my response…….
@jazmineXu, hmm. i read jazmine’s response. interesting i suppose, but whatever. hmm.. it’s gonna be funny when people read what i posted today… can’t wait to get yelled at for that one.
personally, I really like this entry – I like reading things that make me think outside of the western school of thought. :)
I like your insights. I agree with your post.
Oh yeah, if the Red Soxs meet the Cubs, the world will end only if you’re superstitious. ;)
Define reality. Prove it.
Whether you like it or not, you began a metaphysical discussion. Either you are brave enough to continue it, or you are not, but once you open Pandora’s box, it’s impossible to stuff the demons back in.
The usual definition of common sense is “Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.” I’d say that common sense would have dictated avoiding this subject in the first place. ;)
interesting.
I don’t believe in gods but I respect other people who do. Maybe they have their reasons.
why do we bother with religion talk? why cant you just believe in what you wanna believe and us occult followers believe what we wanna believe?
so, how about that…um… pooooo…ny… p-pink pony???
@blondbedhead, I’m glad I made you ponder a bit.
Religion cannot be based on facts b/c religion is based on faith. Also, the bible is translated from several different langauges. Just playing devils advocate, or not.
You might try reading The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, or any of Francis Schaeffer. I haven’t actually read Strobel’s book, but I have read some Schaeffer, and he’s got a lot of interesting points.
No man writes with complete knowledge and authority, so it’s impossible to prove or disprove a religion based on works being written today.
@Hybrid_girl, I 100% agree.
I enjoyed this post, as I am a Pagan who was raised a Catholic. If I have the balls I might foward this post to this Chritian nut I know just to watch him go crazy.
our kevin bacon degree of separation: 4
have you ever read the book “the power of myth” (joseph campbell/bill moyers base on the popular PBS series) campbell stated that if you research different cultures and religions long enough, you will soon realize they all parallel each other. this is a very interesting post.
very insightful….
@Peasprout, I think that there’s nothing wrong with wanting to search for the truth.
Just try not to step on a lot of toes while you’re doing it. (not that you’re doing it right now…but you have to understand that entries like this might make the typical bible thumper quite angry with you.)
I’m a buddhist and although I might not share the same beliefs as a Christian, I am still respectful of how they feel.
@Peasprout, My family is Mormon and as you can imagine they flipped when they found out I didn’t take the Lord Jesus as my savior and redeemer. Long story . . . but I have trouble understand anybody that doesn’t question the church – it just seems like a pack of fables and lies to keep everyone in ‘the fold’. Gah.
@chubyrain7, your argument can go both ways. Something is always lost in the translation, which means that other details may have been lost. However, I do believe that in the end, it’s all about faith. Whether you regard the Bible to be a true historical text or one that is a collection of fables, in the end it comes down to what you believe. Finding the truth is important in terms of discovering the roots of religion, but that will never truly shake the foundation of Christianity or any other religion. I personally don’t believe the Bible to be more than the most published and read historical text in the world today. After all, it was written by man, wasn’t it? But this is only what I believe, so if you don’t agree I’m fine with that.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that, believe what you will, but be careful when preaching them as some will take those statements personally. I’ve seen friendships deteriorate over such arguments. I’m sure you’re fully aware of that tho. :)
@ca1b0y, Dude, it’s your soul. Do you even believe that you have one? B/c there would be no point in having a soul if you don’t have a religion. That’s interesting. And if you don’t have a soul or don’t believe in an afterlife, does that make life more depressing for you? To not really have a purpose in life? Nothing to live for except a few exciting moments. I’d be depressed.
dead on the money!
There is so much proof in the Bible, and in writers like Joesphus. I don’t have room here. Perhaps I’ll email you…
@Stadden, The thing that gets me is that religion is a structured and organized form of beliefs. I think that is so wrong. How can your beliefs be structured? They have to be formed by yourself, not be told to you by someone else.
Have you looked at Josh McDowell’s The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict? That is a huge part about why I belive what I believe. I suggest you take a look at it, though it reads more like an encyclopaedia. For an easier read, try his book More Than a Carpender. If that’s not enough look into Lee Strobel’s books The Case for Christ: A Journalist’s Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus and The Case for Faith.
un-huh-so the wind blowing the leaves on the trees, the world, and humans just came out of nothing. Yeah, okay. Explain to me then how the world came about if there was nothing to begin with! God made this world in 7 days. He made the heavens and the earth. He made the sun and the moon! He made Adam and Eve! How do you explain the wind blowing? How do you explain people being cured of leprosy-an incurable disease? God is EVERYWHERE! He sees EVERYTHING that you do. But no matter what you do-he loves you more then a mother can love her child! He sent Jesus-His ONLY SON to die for you! To wash you clean with the blood of Christ. When you accept Christ-you are accepting an eternity in Heaven. That sounds a lot better then spending an eternity in hell! With Christ-your whole life will be changed! You will experience his love and joy! He will fill you with so much happiness and love!! How could you pass that up? Why would you want to spend your life in hell, instead of heaven? Revelations speaks of a great tribulation. Believers in Christ will be taken up to Heaven. But those that do not believe, will indure torment after torment until you come to Christ.
Don’t you see-after the tribulation has begun-non believers are given a second chance. They will be able to repent, to give their life over to Christ. John writes this book to encourage the faithful to resist staunchly the demands of emperor worship. He informs his readers that the final showdown between God and Satan is imminent. Satan will increase his persecution of believers, but they must stand fast, even to death. They (believers) are sealed against any spiritual harm and will soon be vindicated when christ returns, when the wicked are forever destroyed, and when God’s people enter an eternity of glory and blessedness. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to be here when the tribulation starts-i would never want to endure a plague of locusts, ugly and painful sores all over my body, the sea turngin to blood, sun scorchign people with fire, darkness, being killed by horses, which by the way, “will be given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth (Rev. 6:8).”
I will continue to pray for you, but remember:He loves you so much!!! His love is unconditional. He’ll love you no matter what. You can depend on Jesus. His love will last forever.
His love endures forever!